Why Most Entrepreneurs Stay Stuck (And How to Actually Scale) with Tiffany Rosenbaum

In this episode of the Built to Grow Podcast, Ryan sits down with Tiffany Rosenbaum—entrepreneur, business owner, and advisor—to break down what it actually takes to scale a business the right way.

From starting with nothing during the 2008 crash to building a fast-growing company, Tiffany shares the real, behind-the-scenes lessons most entrepreneurs learn the hard way.

They dive into:

•  The biggest misconception small business owners have about scaling 
•  Why your team—not just your strategy—is the real growth driver 
•  How to build systems that actually support growth 
•  The importance of hiring slow and building the right culture 
•  Why stepping out of the day-to-day is critical for long-term success 
•  And the uncomfortable truth about what’s really holding most entrepreneurs back 

Tiffany also shares how implementing an advisory board helped her scale over 100% in a year—and why surrounding yourself with the right people can completely change your trajectory.

If you’re feeling stuck in your business, still wearing too many hats, or struggling to grow beyond your current level—this episode will challenge the way you think about leadership, systems, and scale.

Follow Tiffany on IG: https://www.instagram.com/tiffanymrosenbaum/

Follow Ryan on IG: https://www.instagram.com/ryan.nylr/
Follow our Podcast on IG: https://www.instagram.com/built.to.grow.podcast/

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Watch the live Interviews on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avahrsoftware

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, we are back with another wonderful episode all about building that perfect small business playbook. I am super excited to have another small business owner, mentor, advisor, chief of all things, Tiffany Rosenbaum. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm going to have you talk about yourself in just a minute, a little bit about what you do and how you do it. But first, I'm going to start off with a little bit of a question, kind of a deep thought-provoking question here, if we could if you don't mind. We've seen a lot of businesses. You yourself have built several businesses. What have you found is the biggest single missing process businesses miss to scale their company?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

First of all, thank you for having me, right? I'm really excited. I love to talk about these things. So thank you. I would think the biggest misconception or the biggest thing missing is actually the entrepreneur understanding it's the team behind the business that actually has the rocket fuel for the business. Um, I think so often, Ryan, small business owners think they can do it better or they think they just know best. And I think it's about getting the people around you that do know better than you. You might be the visionary, but there's so many people out there that know how to do things so incredibly well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

That is a great response. And so true for to humble all of us small business owners that you heard it here first. Tiffany said, we don't know as much as we think we know.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

So I will learn that because I made all the mistakes. Let's be honest. Every entrepreneur makes all the mistakes and they have to learn from their mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Well, we can always blame the mistakes on other people. And I've heard that that's really a successful way to go about it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

I only laugh because I think um there's two types of people: people that blame others and don't get very far. And but then there are people that go, hmm, look inward. And Ryan, I hate to say this, but when I was an entrepreneur, a very young entrepreneur, I remember the day that I had to look in the mirror and go, okay, I have to do this differently. Because we were an open door, we were churning people, we just weren't doing things right. And I had to go, okay, I can't blame it on someone else anymore. What am I doing wrong as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner? And it was gut-wrenching to really own that, to be honest. It was it was hard because I was like, come on, I know what I want to do. Can't everybody else get on the same page? But in reality, it starts with us, and we have to make sure we're the right leader.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

You're exactly right. And I'll tell you, I've talked to a lot of other entrepreneurs, and until they've recognized that humbling moment, I don't think they've really hit bottom yet. They've got a little downward trajectory until they get that little sense of humility. But you're spot on. And and one of the things I'm most excited about talking about with you, Tiffany, is you have a lot of experience in real estate, a lot of different asset management type backgrounds. But could you give us a little backstory on how you got to be where you are? You're successful, you're out there speaking to other people, you're being a great mentor. How did you get here?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I was going to college. If anybody knows what happened in 2008, 2009, it was a beautiful time when the market crashed royally. But that's when my husband and I we graduated and we moved to Arizona. And as soon as we moved to Arizona, all money stopped. Like we had no money coming in. We were on food storage. Literally, I remember sitting there in the living room crying with my baby son that was about three months old. And he had like three layers on because that winter in Arizona, anybody watching is gonna be like, Arizona is not cold. But for us, it was cold. It was uh 50 degrees in our house. And I just remember going, I don't know how I'm gonna make it. And I remember walking out the door, going to knock doors because we had tried to start something up, discount card, and it just was not going anywhere. And my dad flew in one day and he said, Tiff, I don't care what you do, you gotta figure out how to get into real estate. And I was like, I have no food in my fridge, and I'm supposed to get into real estate. How is this possible? And I didn't say this, but I sat there very humbled in the moment. And he left, and a couple days later, a friend came over and was like, Hey, I help people get into real estate. I'm like, Can you help me? And we sat and talked, and a gut-wrenching moment came. He goes, But you gotta find someone to loan to you. And I was like, Who's gonna loan to me? I have no money, no heat. As I sat there, he left, and every night I'd wait and stay awake, just thinking, how do I find this person to help me? And I found a mentor that taught me how to analyze real estate, analyze properties, and I would analyze a property and I handed it to him. He's like, No. And in 2009, let's be honest, people were paying you to take their properties. But what I didn't realize, he was teaching me something incredibly important. He was teaching me not to be emotionally connected to real estate, instead be willing to walk away and not be connected to it. And so, about after the 150th, no, and I was like, I just need peanut butter and deli sandwich. I was, I was, you know, we were struggling. And so he said, you know, I think, I think you're ready. And I said, ready for what? And he said, I think you're ready. I want to loan to you. You you've shown like you're disciplined, and I said, I'll do anything, what can I do? And he started loaning to us, and we started investing. And but what I realized there was a huge gap in the market that you property management companies didn't truly know how to analyze properties, help investors build their portfolio. And so we started Rosenbaum Realty Group. And our first big client was from a property right next to us, and he had been literally walked off, which was really useful back then, very common, for contractors who walk off with $50,000 and just leave behind try. And so we found this guy on Facebook Messenger and we're like, hey, can we just put a for rent sign out in front of your property? Can we just do anything? He was like, Yeah. And so we actually, as we helped him, just being helpful, he said, you know what? I have these other properties. Do you mind helping me with those? And so we started actually managing for him, and he had like 50 units. And so month after month, he just started realized there was something here. But one thing I'd like to reiterate, what people do usually wrong is when money starts coming in, what do they do? They spend it. We actually stayed on food storage for about a year to make sure that we were okay. And people there at that time was like, you're crazy, you have money come in. I said, I don't know the next day it's gonna drop them. So we would put everything back into the company to try to build it and try to make sure we were stabilized before we actually took a draw from it.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

That's a very common answer with a lot of the business owners that we have interviewed, is is I think the successful ones know how to normalize out big moments. Uh, when they have a big moment, they don't just go and spend it, they don't do the big steak dinner celebration, right? They do a good job at staying grounded and putting it that money to work. They don't change their lifestyle after big wins, which is the opposite I see of a lot of failed businesses is they probably overselebrate those moments and stop staying humble and aggressive. But one of the big things I like to talk about are our systems, processes that we can put in place. What were some of the systems that you put in place to actually like drive your business forward and help you scale?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I think the biggest misconception or uh issue with young entrepreneurs, what they hire someone, they put someone in the scene, and they're like, hey, they should know everything that I want done, right? It's it's easy, it's property management, it's nothing hard with it. But I realized I needed a training system that trained people to understand the company, to understand the processes, to understand why we exist. I read Starbucks, their book, and they talked about how they spent more money on training and the people is more money there instead of marketing. And so that's we made a huge shift in ours. I said that process has to be number one for us. It has to be the people, it has to be the training to get them up and make sure that they're ready to win. Otherwise, how does someone know how they're gonna win in a company unless they're trained for it? So I'd say that was number one. Number two was the organizational like uh checklist we have. Now we have a software that helps us through it to help people understand what to do on a daily basis through because there's so many laws and property management. We actually use Apple with our property management softwares, and it's been a good source to help make sure that processes move through and they don't break down. Because you know, in every business, if you don't have a process, then there's a gap. And who's gonna own the gap? And that process helps fill that gap, and that system helps fill that gap.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

That's fantastic. Do you find yourself having a full calendar full of meetings? Are you more of a doer? Give me a sense of kind of your leadership style and how you grew your team and what you let go of versus what you still do yourself.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

For a long time, Ryan, I was the doer. I still am. That's my like core. But I had to realize I had to stop being the doer of or jumping. And I think I'm gonna go a little bit sideways on this question, just a tad, because what entrepreneurs struggle with when they hire people is they want to also jump back into that position sometimes. They also want to like continue to do what they know how to do instead of step back and be the visionary and the planner and to understand the entire business so the team members can go forward with that business, right? And create that vision and make sure it happens. At my heart, I'm a visionary and um, I'm a doer in that. But as I I created an advisory board and they said, what you need to do is you need to step back and plan and make sure the team knows how to carry the vision forward. And so my leadership now is that I spend a lot of time on the vision. Where are we going to be in 10 years and how do we get there?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

You know, I find it rare to find entrepreneurs that have an advisory board. Can we talk about that for a few minutes? Like what was what was the the moment you you realized you needed an advisory board? Who kind of brought that to you, or how did you come up with that?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, I had a mentor early on, and he said, I said, what was the one thing that gave you all the success? Because he's incredibly successful. He said, You know, if I had to pinpoint one thing and do my advisory board, and I'm like, advisory board, wait, tell me about this. Did you give them equity? How did this work? He goes, No. What I did is I hired them, I pay them a salary, and they meet with me quarterly. And if I need a call, great. So a couple years ago, we set up our advisory board, and every year we actually re-interview and say, who are we missing part of this advisory board? And I strategically went outside my industry because I have one that's similar in my industry, but most of them are outside, but they connect still. So, like I have an insurance broker that understands insurance, I have an estate planner, I have a CPA, I have a business owner that owns 13 businesses and has multiple clients. But they've all done what we want to do. Because the problem is our mind, whatever we can envision, we can create, right? And so, how do we get around the people that can help us envision bigger and better? And so these advisory board members, they push me past any limit that I ever thought was possible. And nine times out of ten, they tell me, Hey, you got to do more. You're where are you going? Come on. And so some of those advisory board meetings are incredibly uncomfortable because they will call me on my bluff, and not bluff, I don't try to bluff, but they'll call me on, hey, you're you can do more, you can push past this. But it's something that you know, entrepreneurs when they get in the business, they go, Hey, I'm my own business owner, right? Who am I answering to? And the problem is that human nature, well, we all get a little bit uh complacent, right? So who are we answering to to get us better, to push us past our limits? And so that's why I created an advisory board.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

That's great. For your first advisory board, was it uh your own network of individuals you already kind of knew and had a relationship with, or were you cold calling other individuals?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, it was people that we knew at first. I would say our first ones, it it was a success, but it wasn't like, hey, ultra successful. But what I learned is what we need to do is interview and go, hey, this has to be someone. So now when we interview, I flat ask if you're gonna sugarcoat things or you're gonna pat me on the back, that's not why I want you there. I want you to call me on my bluff and I want you to tell me where I'm going wrong so I can get better, right? So often we want to pat on the back, but the problem is it doesn't really get us better. And this year we just revamped our advisory board again, and now I'll go to my advisory board members and I'll say, Hey, we're looking for this. Do any of you have recommendations? And their network and their people is so extensive. Like this last year, we got our new CPA on our advisory board through another member, and they said, I think you're ready for this person. And for the first couple of years, they were like, You're not ready. Now they're like, you're ready. And so it's it's nice to see them start seeing that you're growing.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

And then to start to say, okay, I can I can introduce you to this person now.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

How much growth or how much new business do you feel like you've received from your advisory board?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

So I would say last year was the first year, before last year is when we started interviewing, we revamped last year. We grew 122%. Wow. And so this year we're on target to try to grow another 100%. And with that growth creates growing pains. Don't get me wrong, people are like, hey, it looks beautiful, it's great. I think the CEO and the entrepreneur better be willing to take that gross on because you have to change people. You have to like your leadership team, you're changing nine times out of ten, and that can be painful at times.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah, it's a great point, as probably someone that got you to where you were isn't gonna get you to where you want to go. And so always being kind of aware of that and it's open conversations. Tell me a little bit about your management style. How do you how do you interact with your direct reporters?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I can tell you what I am now. What I was before was a learning process, and I'm still learning, but now it's all for numbers. And what I do is every week I have a one-on-one. Personally, my one-on-ones are really incredibly important to me. And where my one-on-ones happen, I want to know where they're winning, where they feel like they're losing, what do they love, what do they hate. And so for the first 10 minutes, they tell me about that. You know, some people, it depends on the person. You got to know personalities, but I'll ask them about their weekend. I want to know how they're doing personally, and then the second 10 minutes, I tell them what I see. And then the third 10 minutes, we go over KPIs, key performance indicators, and we go, hey, where are we winning, where are we losing, where should we be, and why are we there?

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Can you give me an example of some of those KPIs that you guys track?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Off the top of my head, like delinquency is huge in property management. I want to know what our delinquency rate is, our vacancy rate, you know, how many move-ins, how many move outs we're having, because then I can tell um, are we going in the right direction or are we going in the wrong direction? Um, those are huge. How many leases, how long the leases on average are uh lasting? A big one are sales, because I consider the sales to be um the bloodline to the business. So, how many leads? What's our conversion rate um in per office? So every KPI I have also goes down granular to the offices. And my general manager and I go over these so that I really can get a good picture. Because as you grow, I think this was the hardest thing for me. My pulse now is numbers. That's my pulse because I don't have a pulse on the day-to-day calling owners. I don't have a pulse on calling residents now. It's a pulse, and the numbers give me a pulse to the business and know if we're winning or losing.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

I we have a lot of small business owners that listen to this podcast, and I think one of the biggest things is getting off the treadmill. Like um, the entrepreneur can't seem to take his foot completely off the treadmill. We still feel like we need to be doers. But maybe you could walk us through just a little bit of some of the habits that you've implemented into your day-to-day routine that kind of help you keep your eye on the vision and growth of the company as opposed to the treadmill operator side of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I love that question. And I'm gonna need an answer, but at the same time, people are gonna be like, oh, you gotta fast. No, it took me years, and I'm still I still have to catch myself, go, mm, what am I doing? I think the first thing is I do a to-do list. I know that sounds weird. I have a remarkable that my executive assistant um recommended to me, and it tells me what my core things that I gotta work on and my non-negotiables of what I have to get done that day. And then I stay out of people's way because really they're good at what they do. And it took me a long time because it's real easy as an entrepreneur, like you said, to try to go back in and to do their job. But the problem is, is when we do that, we show that person we don't trust them. And when we show that person we don't trust them, they lose trust in us. And then when that happens, they actually go downhill and they're not happy. And when they're not happy, guess what happens? They leave. And so we have to trust through numbers. You have to trust that our people want to do what's right. And so, one is the remarkable Mike to do list, and two is my advisory advisory board definitely keeps me accountable, and my executive's assistant keeps me accountable. So I put people in place to hold me accountable so that I don't get off track. That's easier said than done. But put the right people around you and it's easier.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I think it's important to have the right people around you, but your landscape changes a lot too. I mean, real estate's real estate, but there's a lot of changes happening, right? There's a lot of supply and demand changes happen from day to day, but but there's law and legislation on the changes in real estate commissions and the impact it has to the buyers or the sellers. But what do you do, Tiffany, to keep yourself sharp as a leader, as a business owner? Is there some specific things that you do on a regular basis to kind of keep you keep you sharp and in tune?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Learning ever-ending um education, right? I think is a phenomenal question because we hear, hey, I can't wait to be out of college, I can't wait to be done with school. And I'm like, now I look at it, and when I was that person, I was like, I can't wait. I'm gonna be out of college, I don't have to be doing this bookwork anymore, and I'm done, right? And I did that for a while actually after college. I was like, I'm done, I can, you know, I can run a business, not a big deal, right? But then I looked at Mark Cuban, I looked at Warren Buffett, I looked at uh, you know, Elon Musk, and I was like, how you know, and I was watching them and they talked about how much they spend towards learning, and they spend hours upon hours a day just bringing education into themselves. And I'm going, huh, if they do that, what should I do? I would say education is the most important thing. So I go to conferences, I read certain books on uh on my business, but also leadership, and then I put myself around people that are far more educated and uh smarter than I am.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Do you see any specific thing or education or insight on what's holding entrepreneurs back? I mean, I know you're out, you're networking, you're speaking, you're going to these events, but that's kind of a common thread of holding people back.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

You know, I think the biggest killer to any entrepreneur or any success journey is the comfort zone. And, you know, because I actually think us coming into our office and getting into our emails is our comfort zone. Email's easy, right? Answer an email, be done. But when you become a true entrepreneur, you have to step away from that. And you actually have to envision and put out there what you want to happen. And oh no, what happens if it doesn't happen? All of a sudden, we we gotta stop living in this I'm scared or fearful. And then because when you put out something, then you have to work it backwards, and so I would say the comfort zone. And because if you're gonna get out of your comfort zone on a daily basis, you actually strategically have to think about that every single day. Mean, okay, I'm here, and so when I come out of my office, I have to go, I can't go to my email, what do I have to do? Because I still struggle with it. I think everybody does, and because our comfort zone is comfortable. Who wants to be uncomfortable? Really? Nobody, so we have to strategically look at how I can become uncomfortable, grow every single day, because the growth is the opposite of comfort, right? Muscles don't grow by sitting still, muscles grow by doing that last rap that hurts in the jump. And so I would say you gotta get out of your comfort zone every single day and be willing to.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I love that. I think uh I think you're a great example of of growing your business by being out in front of it, uh, building a personal brand. And I'm sure that probably wasn't a natural thing to get out. Was that an uncomfortable thing to for you? Like, what are some of your examples of getting outside of your comfort zone? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Oh my goodness. I'll I'm gonna tell all myself the other day yesterday because I am not someone that loves to be behind the camera. I I'm not a natural. So my executive assistant yesterday um goes, Come here, Jeff. And I'm like, Okay, what am I doing? And she pulled me into the bathroom in front of a mirror and goes, Hey, you're practiced. But it's and I'm just not an athlete. And so I have to do things. That aren't easy and don't and take so much longer for me to learn than anybody else. Like as a young kid, I remember still in fourth grade. I wasn't, I didn't read well. I struggled. I couldn't say my R's, I couldn't say my W's. I would say Wa Win. Like I struggled intellectually, I would say. And I remember being made fun of as a young kid. And but it taught me resilience that it doesn't matter how long it takes you to do something, as long as you never give up. And I think so often we give up before we see the rainbow. And just because it takes you longer doesn't mean you weren't successful. It just means you just learned more through the process. And so if I have to practice it in front of a mirror, I'll practice it in front of a mirror to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Well, you know, Tiffany, I I love your story. I love your humility of kind of where you've been. I think we've all, gosh, a lot of us remember 2008, 2009, and the hardships that followed in the in the years after that, even um, as it is the economy was slow to struggle. But what are some of those hard, humbling moments that you endured along the way? What were you have some moments where you're ready to give up and throw in the towel? I mean, you talk about resilience. I think you're a great example of resilience, but what were some of those moments like?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

A lot. And I only laughed because I remember I wasn't a good hire. Like I didn't hire people right. I didn't. I made every mistake in the book. And I remember one time um I needed to hire an accounting person. And um we hired one, but it was the wrong decision because we were desperate. And what do entrepreneurs do when they're desperate and they don't want to go back in the seat? They just put a button seat, right? And so we put this person in a seat, and as soon as this person walked in the door, they killed the entire culture of the company and literally started just destroying it. Like everything started going wrong. The PL, the balance, everything was just starting to falter. And I finally found out who it was and it was this person, and we fired that person. But when you fire someone, guess what? Who goes back in the seat? The entrepreneur. And so I remember wanting to crawl under my desk that day and just cry. And this was the same day I looked in the mirror and I said, hmm, I've got to stop. What is wrong with me? Because I've done this, gotta be a better way. And that's not the only time I've been, I mean, oh man, I've hired the wrong managers before. I've but nine times out of ten, it was my fault because I hired them. I didn't do the whole process that we have for hiring. And so I would say there's multiple times that I've wanted to cry around my desk, and have I cried? Yeah, and that's okay. But Barbara Cochran says it best. She doesn't matter if you're gonna hit down, it's a matter about how fast you get back up and you keep going. And so early on in my life, I learned it doesn't matter, keep going. I think I've had probably a lot of bad hires, a lot of bad decisions. But even Amazon, what do they say? They say, you know, as long as I can make a decision really quickly and move forward, and guess what? I'll learn from the mistake faster than waiting and having paralysis, and oh, it has to be perfect. So now what I do, because even now things go wrong all the time. Before, if I'm having one of those days, then I'm like, oh, it's just it's just hard. I'll sit out in front of my uh out in my car for about five minutes before I come into the office. I'll sit and I'll talk to myself. I'm really big about affirmation and mindset, and I'll talk to myself, okay, what are the five things I need to get done? And how do I become the leader I need to become to be the person my team needs as I walk through these office doors? Because if an entrepreneur thinks things are gonna go right, they're wrong, they're gonna go wrong nine times out of ten, but that's how we learn and that's how we grow. I would say one of the biggest learning lessons I had with hiring people was a time that one of my investors they trust us, truth and now, just loved us. So one of my property managers sent an estimate to this investor. Well, the investor didn't look at it and approved a $10,000 bid. So guess what? We went and did a $10,000 bid. We paid for it, we got it all done, and it came across my desk and I was like, oh, this isn't good. People asked, Well, what are you gonna do, Tiff? And I said, I'm gonna call the investor that we just did work on the house. And they're like, Are you kidding me? I'm like, Yes, integrity is the number one thing. You don't have integrity, you don't have anything. So I called this investor, and this was another day I wanted to cry and you know, crawl underneath my desk. And I called this investor and said, Hey, we made a mistake. You just got brand new carpet, you got brand new paint, you got brand new appliances. And he said, What? I said, Yes. We had an investor in proving a bid on your unit. I said, But guess what? You got it for free because we made the mistake. In that moment, he turned to me by the phone and he said, you know, I'm I'm shocked. You called me and you told me this, and you owned up to it. And I said, Well, if you can't trust me, why are you doing business with me? And I think we gained a lot of respect during that moment, but I realized on that day, no matter how bad something goes, no one's ever gonna take my integrity away from me. And that day I wanted to cry on my desk because I don't think any entrepreneur wants to lose 10,000, 100 grand, which they've all happened, but I think uh through those processes we learn to grow.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

I love that. Tiffany, I want to ask you a really important question, which is what are some of the signs that you'll look for now when you are hiring and building that all-star team to prevent you from moving forward with that candidate?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Our hiring process is actually incredibly slow, like incredibly slow. It actually goes through a recruiter first, and they get um a disk profile test. So they do a disk profile test, and then I receive that if it passes the recruiter. Once the recruiter interviews on the disc profile, they've analyzed and say, okay, Tiff, this is someone that we want to send you to. Then they'll come into our office and they'll do an interview. First interview, and then we'll decide, okay, does this person move on? That's the first interview where we decide if they're culture fit. We hire fire off of our core values now. Like, I didn't do that before, which is a really bad mistake. Now it's really big for us. If it's a person that has a manager and it's allowed underneath me, they'll come in for a second interview, and then they'll sit with that person, and then they'll be able to go through the office, meet the team, ask them questions, because what and then we'll make an offer if it's uh it's a valuable of uh it's a if it's someone we want to hire. But what I tell in each each interview now, I'm like if you're looking for a perfect company, we're not it. And I'm sorry, we're just not. If you're looking for someone that tries to get better every single day, then we're that company. Because I think there's a big misalignment in interviews. Guess what? The interviewees on their best foot, and we're on our best foot. We're trying to hire someone, they're trying to get a job. So it's not always, I would say, the best circumstances to find out if you're actually a woman. So that's why we try to have actually three different interviews because then it goes, okay, this person's coming back more than once. They're probably really wanting, and then they get to see, you know, who we are instead of just on that first visit. And I actually learned that from Wells Fargo in college when I went through an interview process with them and how many interviews I had with them when I realized we were struggling with our hiring process. I went back to that and I was like, oh, that's probably why they did that, because they wanted to see me on so many different levels instead of my best foot forward.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

That's great. I think it's a really important um process that businesses get into is take that hiring system very seriously. I know it's easy to throw up a job posting and just find the right resume and hire them pretty quickly, but taking your time can be a very valuable thing to make sure we don't have those missteps that cost us a lot of money making that wrong hire. As you said, yeah, everything in your business suffered when you hired the wrong person. And and I can't tell you how many times I've heard that same story over and over again. So uh thank you for sharing that process. But Tiffany, it's been such a wonderful time getting to know you, hearing your insights. How can people follow along and kind of enjoy your journey through entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Well, first, thank you so much for having me, Ryan, because I love talking about uh teens and business. The best way to get a hold of me is my Instagram handle, and that's Tiffany M. Rosenbaum. And anybody can message me in contact with me.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Awesome. Thank you so much, Tiffany. Appreciate you being on.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

All right, thank you, Ryan.